quote:

Originally posted by Bringin Da Heat:

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by Burning Alive:
He's not the answer.

you're right...that moniker already belongs to Allen Iverson...

I like how ur an a** but its always funny as hell. Yea he aint the answer but his height is a major advantage for us on both sides of the court. Id take a chance on him, for one he's gonna be cheap so we have very little to lose and if he does work out, he's young so he has major upside compared to what we have to lose. I say go for it. Just his height advantage alone would be worth it with all the mis-matches he'll create.

I guess I'll take the "ur an a**" part as a compliment? Im only an a** to people who like to talk out of it

But anyway, I dont know if you realize that there has been NO ONE on this forum who has been lobbying to get Shaun Livingston harder than me. Heck, I started all the way back in June when most of the people who want to sign him now disagreed with me back then

June 12th Thread on How we can get Shaun Livingston

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but it is what it is. I think (matter of fact, I KNOW) that these people who are using that lame "he destroyed his knees", "i dont know about him, he had a bad injury" , "what about his knee? what about his knee?" BS excuses are also talkin out of their a**.

If they wouldve already figured it out that he's back to playing full 5v5 full court ball, the fact that He's been working out with TIM GROVER FOR THE PAST 3 MONTHS (which I also suggested that Shaun should do) (name sound familiar? Thats the guy who got Wade back into beast mode in Chicago. You know...Jordan's trainer? The guy who is esteemed THE BEST athletic trainer there is on in the reigion arguably the country?) Yeah, he's been bustin Livignston's butt for the past few months. For the record,Im not personally aiming this at you Bringin Da Heat, these are general statements. Livingston is one of my favorite players so you'll have to excuse the excitement and gung-ho-ness I may show regarding him.


It make perfect sense to sign this dude because at this phase in the game this is a win/win situation for us. Back when there were RUMORS of the Celtics taking a shot with Darius Miles, I made another lobby for us to do the same thing with Livingston because just like Boston, you could make an incentive offer based on performance and consistency and lock Livingston up for one year. I mean, people talking about bringing back Quinn over Livingston? Retards saying Chalmers would be better? People ALREADY FORGETTING THE RESULTS OF REHABBING AND TRAINING WITH TIM GROVER? Yeah, it pisses me off, and it saddens me on how short-sighted and narrow minded the people of this forum are (not all, but a good several).

I said this back in June and it still holds true to this day:

quote:

GQ7: Posted June 12th:
One thing I think we tend to do is only have an eye and liking for players who are "ripped and ready to go; already at the top of their game while ignoring and tossing those who doesnt seem quite ready or not as eye catching as others. I mean on that 06 team, I wonder how many of you were jumping for joy when they grabbed a clearly declining Antoine Walker, an unproven yet great potential James Posey, and an enigma in Jason Williams? I really doubt that you all were jumping of your seat chanting "we're going to the finals" But those players came in, worked hard, established an identity and chemistry and pulled off one of the most remarkable runs in the last decade. All good people are looking for is a chance; I swear they will try their absolute best not to fail you...

Give this dude a chance and I promise he will work out in the long run...We wanna talk about Point Guards of the future? Having a point guard tandem of Livingston and Chalmers looks very very very good to me. Their games will comliment each other very very very well as well as Wade's...

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by Bringin Da Heat:

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by Burning Alive:
He's not the answer.

you're right...that moniker already belongs to Allen Iverson...

I like how ur an a** but its always funny as hell. Yea he aint the answer but his height is a major advantage for us on both sides of the court. Id take a chance on him, for one he's gonna be cheap so we have very little to lose and if he does work out, he's young so he has major upside compared to what we have to lose. I say go for it. Just his height advantage alone would be worth it with all the mis-matches he'll create.

I guess I'll take the "ur an a**" part as a compliment? Im only an a** to people who like to talk out of it

But anyway, I dont know if you realize that there has been NO ONE on this forum who has been lobbying to get Shaun Livingston harder than me. Heck, I started all the way back in June when most of the people who want to sign him now disagreed with me back then

June 12th Thread on How we can get Shaun Livingston

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but it is what it is. I think (matter of fact, I KNOW) that these people who are using that lame "he destroyed his knees", "i dont know about him, he had a bad injury" , "what about his knee? what about his knee?" BS excuses are also talkin out of their a**.

If they wouldve already figured it out that he's back to playing full 5v5 full court ball, the fact that He's been working out with TIM GROVER FOR THE PAST 3 MONTHS (which I also suggested that Shaun should do) (name sound familiar? Thats the guy who got Wade back into beast mode in Chicago. You know...Jordan's trainer? The guy who is esteemed THE BEST athletic trainer there is on in the reigion arguably the country?) Yeah, he's been bustin Livignston's butt for the past few months. For the record,Im not personally aiming this at you Bringin Da Heat, these are general statements. Livingston is one of my favorite players so you'll have to excuse the excitement and gung-ho-ness I may show regarding him.


It make perfect sense to sign this dude because at this phase in the game this is a win/win situation for us. Back when there were RUMORS of the Celtics taking a shot with Darius Miles, I made another lobby for us to do the same thing with Livingston because just like Boston, you could make an incentive offer based on performance and consistency and lock Livingston up for one year. I mean, people talking about bringing back Quinn over Livingston? Retards saying Chalmers would be better? People ALREADY FORGETTING THE RESULTS OF REHABBING AND TRAINING WITH TIM GROVER? Yeah, it pisses me off, and it saddens me on how short-sighted and narrow minded the people of this forum are (not all, but a good several).

I said this back in June and it still holds true to this day:

quote:

GQ7: Posted June 12th:
One thing I think we tend to do is only have an eye and liking for players who are "ripped and ready to go; already at the top of their game while ignoring and tossing those who doesnt seem quite ready or not as eye catching as others. I mean on that 06 team, I wonder how many of you were jumping for joy when they grabbed a clearly declining Antoine Walker, an unproven yet great potential James Posey, and an enigma in Jason Williams? I really doubt that you all were jumping of your seat chanting "we're going to the finals" But those players came in, worked hard, established an identity and chemistry and pulled off one of the most remarkable runs in the last decade. All good people are looking for is a chance; I swear they will try their absolute best not to fail you...

Give this dude a chance and I promise he will work out in the long run...We wanna talk about Point Guards of the future? Having a point guard tandem of Livingston and Chalmers looks very very very good to me. Their games will comliment each other very very very well as well as Wade's...

Yup I tottally agree, Livingston = very little to lose + a lot to gain.

GQ7,

Months have passed and I still have the same concern about Livingston that I did then, and it has absolutely nothing to do with his health:

Are you looking for a good player, or a good player for this team??

Personally, when looking at possible signings, I like to think about more than what they can do. I like to think about how those things will relate to this team now and in the future. Even in the rare occurance that he stays healthy for a full season, I want to know if he's going to mesh with Wade. Like I've told you before and like I've said for the last 4 years, we need a PG who will play solid defense, not turn the ball over, and most importantly, MAKE THREES. That's the guy we need in the backcourt with Wade. So while Livingston could very well be better in the future than Chalmers, I still think Chalmers has a much, much, much better chance to be better for this team, considering he's one of the few guys in this league who fits the criteria. We don't need a playmaker who doesn't stretch the court with his outside shooting because its just a duplication of our best player. Riley's objective is to build this team AROUND Wade, not with Wades.

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by Bringin Da Heat:

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by Burning Alive:
He's not the answer.

you're right...that moniker already belongs to Allen Iverson...

I like how ur an a** but its always funny as hell. Yea he aint the answer but his height is a major advantage for us on both sides of the court. Id take a chance on him, for one he's gonna be cheap so we have very little to lose and if he does work out, he's young so he has major upside compared to what we have to lose. I say go for it. Just his height advantage alone would be worth it with all the mis-matches he'll create.

I guess I'll take the "ur an a**" part as a compliment? Im only an a** to people who like to talk out of it

But anyway, I dont know if you realize that there has been NO ONE on this forum who has been lobbying to get Shaun Livingston harder than me. Heck, I started all the way back in June when most of the people who want to sign him now disagreed with me back then

June 12th Thread on How we can get Shaun Livingston

I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but it is what it is. I think (matter of fact, I KNOW) that these people who are using that lame "he destroyed his knees", "i dont know about him, he had a bad injury" , "what about his knee? what about his knee?" BS excuses are also talkin out of their a**.

If they wouldve already figured it out that he's back to playing full 5v5 full court ball, the fact that He's been working out with TIM GROVER FOR THE PAST 3 MONTHS (which I also suggested that Shaun should do) (name sound familiar? Thats the guy who got Wade back into beast mode in Chicago. You know...Jordan's trainer? The guy who is esteemed THE BEST athletic trainer there is on in the reigion arguably the country?) Yeah, he's been bustin Livignston's butt for the past few months. For the record,Im not personally aiming this at you Bringin Da Heat, these are general statements. Livingston is one of my favorite players so you'll have to excuse the excitement and gung-ho-ness I may show regarding him.


It make perfect sense to sign this dude because at this phase in the game this is a win/win situation for us. Back when there were RUMORS of the Celtics taking a shot with Darius Miles, I made another lobby for us to do the same thing with Livingston because just like Boston, you could make an incentive offer based on performance and consistency and lock Livingston up for one year. I mean, people talking about bringing back Quinn over Livingston? Retards saying Chalmers would be better? People ALREADY FORGETTING THE RESULTS OF REHABBING AND TRAINING WITH TIM GROVER? Yeah, it pisses me off, and it saddens me on how short-sighted and narrow minded the people of this forum are (not all, but a good several).

I said this back in June and it still holds true to this day:

quote:

GQ7: Posted June 12th:
One thing I think we tend to do is only have an eye and liking for players who are "ripped and ready to go; already at the top of their game while ignoring and tossing those who doesnt seem quite ready or not as eye catching as others. I mean on that 06 team, I wonder how many of you were jumping for joy when they grabbed a clearly declining Antoine Walker, an unproven yet great potential James Posey, and an enigma in Jason Williams? I really doubt that you all were jumping of your seat chanting "we're going to the finals" But those players came in, worked hard, established an identity and chemistry and pulled off one of the most remarkable runs in the last decade. All good people are looking for is a chance; I swear they will try their absolute best not to fail you...

Give this dude a chance and I promise he will work out in the long run...We wanna talk about Point Guards of the future? Having a point guard tandem of Livingston and Chalmers looks very very very good to me. Their games will comliment each other very very very well as well as Wade's...

I have nothing wrong with him or think he is no good. Cause he clearly has talent but in three seasons in the NBA, he has never played more than 61 games. He has suffered a dislocated knee cap, a dislocated shoulder, a sprained ankle and a back injury... That can be compared to Wade and his in injuries but we saw Wade play in the Olympics and he looks good again. Livingston knee injury was pretty serious and the fact he can even come back and look to play again is amazing. When is he even going to be allowed to go full contact 5 on 5?(update I read where you say he was playing 5vs5 already so thats good) Do you think he is the anwser to our PG needs? I dont and guess what thats just how I feel. I dont sit here and knock you for how you feel towards him. But when we sit here ans say his knee could be a problem you just want to bash someone for saying it. I mean Chris Webber was a top 3 forward before he blew out his knee. After that he lost his quickness and was never the same.

i have no problem in signing him. its not like hes gonna hurt the team. him training with tim grover makes it even better. wade did and see his recovery. but of cource livingston had a worse injury than wade. im not sure how effective he will be. and we cant pay him more than 1 mil. give him a 1 year contract and see what he does. just give him a chance. btw i dont like chris quinn so we can let him go. he just doesnt appeal to me. BUT...livingston is def not the long term solution to our pg problem. chalmers hopefully is.

I really would try to make a move for Shaun. True, his knees may have been injured, but as said by GQ7, he is rehabbing with MJ's trainer. Lets not forget he was the guy who reborn the beast in D Wade. IMO, I'd sign him to a contract, and see how he works out, something like how we did with Penny Hardaway last season.

I really don't care if shaun wont be as explosive as before, but is he can average something like 6-7 ppg and 4-5 assists, then I'll guess I can settle for that.

quote:

Originally posted by SLuG3:

I have nothing wrong with him or think he is no good. Cause he clearly has talent but in three seasons in the NBA, he has never played more than 61 games. He has suffered a dislocated knee cap, a dislocated shoulder, a sprained ankle and a back injury... That can be compared to Wade and his in injuries but we saw Wade play in the Olympics and he looks good again. Livingston knee injury was pretty serious and the fact he can even come back and look to play again is amazing. When is he even going to be allowed to go full contact 5 on 5?(update I read where you say he was playing 5vs5 already so thats good) Do you think he is the anwser to our PG needs? I dont and guess what thats just how I feel. I dont sit here and knock you for how you feel towards him. But when we sit here ans say his knee could be a problem you just want to bash someone for saying it. I mean Chris Webber was a top 3 forward before he blew out his knee. After that he lost his quickness and was never the same.

SLug3,

this is where some misreadings have happened. I dont recall bashing anyone for having concerns about his injury. Heck we as fans should be. As much of a fan I am of him, I am as well. The problem I have with several people is the fact that they write the dude off just because of the injury, period. They know nothing of his development, nothing of his endeavors, NOTHING, just the fact that he had a freak injury, they toss the dude off. I dont recall saying any names, so dont assume Im "bashing"...unless the shoe fits.


Now I know this is not the 'normal' GQ7: The 'facts and figures' dude who likes to give it raw and cold. But frankly, I know Miami can use this dude. I know Miami will definitely benefit from taking a chance on this dude. He has the handles and mind of a PG, the hunger of a SG, and the length of a SF.

Im sorry but bringing up Chris Webber as an example is not a valid example here. Yeah his knee injury did some damage, but at that stage of his career, Chris Webber didnt care...It wasnt until he got in Detroit where he really began to get that hunger and aggresiveness and he was making plays like he was still 25 in Golden State.

quote:

Originally posted by house:
GQ7,

Months have passed and I still have the same concern about Livingston that I did then, and it has absolutely nothing to do with his health:

Are you looking for a good player, or a good player for this team??

Personally, when looking at possible signings, I like to think about more than what they can do. I like to think about how those things will relate to this team now and in the future. Even in the rare occurance that he stays healthy for a full season, I want to know if he's going to mesh with Wade. Like I've told you before and like I've said for the last 4 years, we need a PG who will play solid defense, not turn the ball over, and most importantly, MAKE THREES. That's the guy we need in the backcourt with Wade. So while Livingston could very well be better in the future than Chalmers, I still think Chalmers has a much, much, much better chance to be better for this team, considering he's one of the few guys in this league who fits the criteria. We don't need a playmaker who doesn't stretch the court with his outside shooting because its just a duplication of our best player. Riley's objective is to build this team AROUND Wade, not with Wades.

My friend House, I was awaiting your reply to my rant earlier. Thank you for not disappointing me.

Well to get rid of the easy points first;


1. Wade and Livingston are friends (good friends at that) so I really dont see where "meshing" would be a problem. Neither one of them are selfish players and both are team oriented.

2. Am I looking for a good player or a good player for this team? Im looking for both. We're the only ones making "making threes" an issue. Riles got Marion 34%, Jones 40%, Chalmers , Cook 33%, and even Banks 34% that are "credible three point shooters". How many more are you looking for?

I always lose you on that part because Im guessing Im not understanding how we can forget the Williams/Payton tandem that got us the ring in 06'.

- Gary Payton was a career 31% from trey and yet Riles still wanted him. Im sure you know why; defense, leading the floor, and despite how 'bad' he was from the outside, STILL be able to hit that open jumper. Heck he shot 29% from trey the year we won the ring, but I wonder why he still played 29 Minutes a game? Even THEN, Williams who you recognized as being someone who could hit threes is a career 33% from trey; shooting 37% the year we won the ring, 34% the year after and 35% last season. Those are not 'phenominal' numbers. And lets call it for what it is...Williams was a straight up streaky chucker

3. I can only recall our 06 season because the pieces we have are looking very similar. Once again, Riles and Co. are focused on solidifying the inside and bench depth; Why? Because THAT spreads the floor as well. If spread the floor was really a concern, lets recall the Detroit series in 06 when all they did was go to the four corners of the court while Wade destroyed his man. This spreading the floor issue isnt as serious as you're letting on. You only need one three point specialist shooter on the floor...And Im sure either Marion, Jones, Cook, or Banks is going to be on the floor to shoot the shot...

4. I TOTALLY understand where you say that Riles is building around Wade. You know I always enjoy discussions with you because in the end whether we agree or disagree, we always have an understanding of one another (at least I do). But as Riles is building around Wade (as a puzzle) there are different pieces to that puzzle. I forbid to think that Wade will be our only player thats able to effectively penetrate and create something. Wade said it himeself he would like to have someone who can handle the ball and create something. He loves those lobs and alley-oops because it allows him to be effective without taking all the attention at one time as it was when he had to start the play, faciliatate the play, and finish the play. if we really wanted to shoot threes that bad (which we werent a great three point shooting team anyway), As I noted before we have 4 able bodies that can shoot the three to your liking since Shaun isnt an omg great 3point shooter. J Will is a career 33% from 3, Shaun's career is 31%. Im sorry but I dont see the big difference here.

There is a reason that teams are looking into trying to grab Livingston, they see the upside; and to Miami his upside to be paired with Chalmers at the PG spot looks very very very very familiar to the Williams/Payton tandem except both Livingston/Chalmers are known to be fiesty on d, both are young, and they compliment each other's game so much. Even then, you could put Shaun at the 2 behind Wade, the 3 to fill in for Marion or Jones if there's fould trouble, so many possibilities to have him there. Heres another nugget of though: Theres also a reason why Phil Jackson brought in Ron Harper to Chicago; another penetrator who wasnt the best at 'shooting threes'...


Well I dont know, I'll pick this up later...Im hungry. Looking forward to continuing this with ya some more.


Later Thread Headz

quote:

IMO, I'd sign him to a contract, and see how he works out, something like how we did with Penny Hardaway last season.

Yea... see how it plays out. Could't hurt.

Suppose there isn't much risk but I doubt he will ever be back to form.

He is more than worth the risk. I have said it before, he is a player with low risk high reward! He will come cheap but what if he ends up playing amazing ball? It will be more that worth it. Than we will get him in a bargain price. His slashing ability along with his ability to play PG,SG,and SF proves to be a very great asset to any team. His size at the PG position will create miss matches like you won't believe. If we play him at the point, where it seems like the most possible place he will be way bigger that most PG at 6'7!

I just think it would be flat out dumb if the heat do not attempt to bring this guy on the team, period. Ive said it time and time againt. Sign him to a contract for 2 years, any year after that a team option. And have a clause that if he has the same knee injured he gets nothing or just a portion of the money. Where is the risk in that?

quote:

Originally posted by CAuZeNEffeCKt:
I just think it would be flat out dumb if the heat do not attempt to bring this guy on the team, period. Ive said it time and time againt. Sign him to a contract for 2 years, any year after that a team option. And have a clause that if he has the same knee injured he gets nothing or just a portion of the money. Where is the risk in that?

my though exactly. As we speak Golden State is trying to lock him up to a contract since Monta Ellis went down with that mysterious ankle injury while "working out"... I really hope Miami can get him, seriously, I do

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by CAuZeNEffeCKt:
I just think it would be flat out dumb if the heat do not attempt to bring this guy on the team, period. Ive said it time and time againt. Sign him to a contract for 2 years, any year after that a team option. And have a clause that if he has the same knee injured he gets nothing or just a portion of the money. Where is the risk in that?

Trust me I'm with you on this, but I feel that G.S. is going to get him just because they throw money around like if its candy. The Heat cant compete if it turns into a bidding war.

my though exactly. As we speak Golden State is trying to lock him up to a contract since Monta Ellis went down with that mysterious ankle injury while "working out"... I really hope Miami can get him, seriously, I do

quote:

Originally posted by CAuZeNEffeCKt:

quote:

Originally posted by GQ7:

quote:

Originally posted by CAuZeNEffeCKt:
I just think it would be flat out dumb if the heat do not attempt to bring this guy on the team, period. Ive said it time and time againt. Sign him to a contract for 2 years, any year after that a team option. And have a clause that if he has the same knee injured he gets nothing or just a portion of the money. Where is the risk in that?

Trust me I'm with you on this, but I feel that G.S. is going to get him just because they throw money around like if its candy. The Heat cant compete if it turns into a bidding war.

my though exactly. As we speak Golden State is trying to lock him up to a contract since Monta Ellis went down with that mysterious ankle injury while "working out"... I really hope Miami can get him, seriously, I do